We have our mic. I haven't either. So we'll get going, I guess. All right. It is 5 o'clock. We'll call our special council meeting to order at this time. Roll call. We have eight members currently present. I have not heard from Alderman Debates or Cummings, so maybe they'll pop in here. We have first on the agenda is our public hearing for the purpose of hearing any citizen or taxpayer on the proposed budget for the upcoming year. We'll have the clerk read the proof of publication. Notice of this public hearing is published in the Herald Times Reporter on November 14th. Thank you. We did have a sign-up sheet, but is there anyone here who would like to speak for the public hearing on the budget? Anyone here would like to speak? Going once, twice. Did we have any previously submitted? We did not. All right, we will close the public hearing. Only item on the agenda is with the Finance Committee. We'll just have the clerk read the document, and then we can go from there. We have document 789, which is the general city budget of proposed 2025 levy for 2026 in the amount of 20,274,209 with $1,469,971 in proposed tax incremental financing. Committee returns same, recommending to adopt the budget. Councilor Pleasure on this report. Move for the adoption of the committee's report. Second. Motion and a second. Discussion? Alderman Sitkiewicz. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll just kick things off and try to be brief here. I want to thank Sean Elford, our finance director, his staff, Eric Biedman, and the rest of the staff in the finance department for their compiling the budget this year and getting all the information to the committee on a timely fashion. If the council takes a look at all the attachments in Granicus, That is every item in the budget, but also every item that any council member had asked for for clarification or additional information in this year's deliberations. So there's a bunch of attachments there, but it's again, information that this council had asked for to help along with the deliberations on this year's budget. So appreciate the quick turnaround on those. It was helpful in the meetings this year. Again, thanks to the Finance Committee itself. We held a number of meetings with some thoughtful deliberations. And then we had one member outside of the Finance Committee, one member of Council show up to those as well, to Alder Norell, to assist in crafting this year's budget. So thank you, Alder Norell, for attending those. When we take a look at this year's budget, it really is a carryover from last year's budget. There wasn't, looking back at the last year, The mayor did a nice job of taking council action over the last 365 days and molding it into a document that sets forth council's priorities. When we look back at the past year, council hasn't come forward with any cost reductions, actions, any eliminations of funded positions, or really any actions to say that we're looking at reducing services throughout the city of Manitowoc. In fact, when you look at the actions that council has taken in the past few years, there's been numerous unanimous actions taken by council that actually increases spending. And probably so that they're really dealt with personnel. When we take a look at the 2026 budget, again, I call it a carryover budget because the services are carried over. There's not a service for the public that's changing from 2025 to 2026. What is changing is the personnel cost lines that's changing from 25 to 26. And we put forth as a personnel committee that we value our employees and we have to pay appropriately our employees, and that comes in the form of wages and benefits. When we take a look at the first part of that is the agreement with the police union. That was a unanimous agreement. vote of council, 10-0. In 2026, that's going to raise our costs $359,000. Again, passed council unanimously. We took a look at alleviating pay compression in protective services. That added $199 to our 2026 budget. That passed council unanimously. The collective bargaining agreement with the local firefighter union, that adds $199,000 in 2026. That passed council unanimously. We have the resolution to be adopted for the benefit plan for our non-represented employees. That adds $365,000, which was a 13% increase for 2026. that passed the council unanimously. So when I look at our deliberations for the budget, the mayor rolled in every one of council's actions that we took this year and previous years that affected the 2026 budget. There wasn't one action item that came forward from council or proposed to council that was voted down that handed the mayor any cost savings or reductions in services for him to cut in the budget. I know there's been talk about the general fund and where it's sitting. And there is rightly some concern. In the past, we've used some general fund dollars to balance the budget. And then we've had savings through having open positions and those dollars flow back into the general fund Reserve. We have had open positions in the past. We do not have that same situation going into 2026. We are fully employed and our positions are full. That's a great problem to have. I would much rather have that problem than be trying to scrape and find people and try to fill positions. We've successfully turned the ship on our pay plan and culture. of where people want to work for the city of Manitowoc and be an employer of choice. And that's something we should be proud of. And I think our budget reflects that. Do we have challenges going forward? Yes. Will we always have challenges going forward? Yes. Are there certain things that are not sustainable in this budget? Yes. Are there certain things that were not sustainable in previous budgets? Yes. Will there be things that are not sustainable in next year's budget? Yes. And that's called forecasting and working through challenges. So while I also don't think that there's a huge appetite from the public to cut services, I haven't heard any. In fact, when I talk about the budget with citizens, and honestly, it's usually conversations that I initiate. I haven't had my phone ring off the hook. I haven't had my email inbox blown up about this budget or budgets in the past even. It usually comes when I initiate the conversation. And I haven't had anybody tell me that they want services eliminated. In fact, I was just talking to Alderman Rell just before the meeting. We're talking about leaf pickup. And it's a hard choice of, well, do we pick up leaves or do we get the plows ready for snow? Because while we may take an angry phone call that the leaves weren't picked up, we would take another angry phone call if the snow wasn't plowed. So pick your poison. One. Probably more than one phone call. So we do a good, we try to balance out the priorities for citizens. And it's not always the easiest thing to do. But that's why we have competent people who can make those decisions. But again, I don't hear the large outcry for cutting services. If I did, I would imagine that we would have had more than one alder outside of the finance committee attend the budget meeting meetings asking for reduction of services to help trim costs, and we didn't have that. So Mayor, I applaud the budget that you put forward. You took council action into your deliberations, worked with department heads to craft a budget that is workable. Do I like the tax increase that comes along with it? No, I don't think anybody can sit up here and say that we like the tax increase that comes with it. Would I like to be at a 0% increase? Sure. Would I like to have to explain what services we're cutting to get there? Absolutely not. So I can defend this budget. I can support this budget because it puts the right dollars into the right services. because I haven't been told that we're providing too much service to the citizens of the city of Manitowoc. So thank you. Thank you. Further discussion on the motion to approve the budget as recommended by the Finance Committee. Alderman Reckelberg. First, I'd just like to put together a little statement. It's basically just the factual information. The full reassessment this year brings with it a wide range of changes and responses for individual property owners. From you've got to be kidding me to it's about time. Since there is such a wide range of assessment changes, using the average percentage change is the best way we have to work with this year. The average residential percentage increase in value was 24.04% according to the 25 assessment reveal analytics report we were all provided. Based upon that average percentage increase, the city line on your tax bill will increase if you're the average 8.91% or $121.52. The county line, on the other hand, will only increase 7.12% or $56.16. The school district for Manor to Walk will increase 6.87% or $90.10, and the vocational, technical, and adult education tax increase is 6.36% or $7.67. As most people are interested in the bottom line and don't necessarily look at the line by line detail by taxing jurisdiction, the bottom line for the average taxpayer that had an average assessed value house that went up the average percentage increase this assessment will see the bottom line on their taxes go up 8.31% or roughly $275.45 or figure about a $23 per month increase. This budget will also increase our outstanding general obligation debt by the end of 26 by $616,193. While the debt being taken out is mostly for road work and other equipment and projects that are certainly important and worthwhile, since my first city budget deliberation, I've been trying to get the city to pay for a portion of the capital project list with tax levy dollars and then borrow for the balance instead of always just borrowing the whole amount. Looking back at the previous two budgets, they too had the effect of increasing our general outstanding debt balance. The current budget is using $3.5 million of general fund undesignated to make it balanced. The current budget that we were working under did the same thing, $3.5 million. One of the reports I requested for, and it's part of on the Granicus, is the summary with fund balances V2, or in other words, version 2, because version 1 had a lot of problems. It wasn't really complete yet. It was a good start, but the numbers weren't thought through to find out where we are. If you look at the version two, the bottom right hand corner where it says, unreserved, undesignated fund balance for the end of the proposed 26 budget cycle. it's projected that balance will be $18,805. Now, if you recall back listening to the auditors and all the other financial considerations that have been going on, they always say you should have, what, 10%, 15% of at least general fund expenditures in that. Well... if you're gonna have 10 to 15%, you're looking at three to 5 million that you gotta maintain a balance for. And granted, will everything turn out the way it is? I'm thinking maybe it will, because the numbers as I checked them were, in my opinion, a little bit more realistic. If you remember a year ago and two years ago, I complained about the interest income amount being low. And as it turned out, with the audit, my number was even low by a couple hundred thousand. But it was almost a million dollar difference. Now those numbers are no longer unrealistic. So I really have concern that if things go accordingly, this budget is going to give us a general fund of $18,000 or next to zero. That's why I will not be voting for the budget. Now, I know the budget will pass. It always does. First off, I'm not going to complain about the mayor. I mean, he just listened to what the city council was saying as far as what projects they would like or not like. I certainly appreciate that our personnel department and our personnel committee went along with The recommendations not only are based on the contract negotiations and what was settled, but then for our nonrepresented and other people that fall under the personnel committee for their wage increases and benefit. I'm a firm believer that you've got to be realistic. And while you don't have to be the highest, you certainly can't be the lowest. You want to be in the ballpark. I think we are. And so I can appreciate that. Having said that, I ran out of notes other than, once again, just look at that statement. I think this is an important statement. It took me a number of years to finally get to this facet of being able to see what's really going on with our finances. And so, like I said, I'm not gonna be disappointed if the budget is adopted. I just can't vote for it, As a finance person, I don't like to see that number there. Just like when you go to the doctor and the doctor says, please don't do that anymore, and you go out and do it anyway, you can do that. But a doctor's gotta do what a doctor's gotta do. A finance man has to be concerned and at least bring that to your attention. So I'm not saying the mayor did a bad job or a good job or whatever. I'm just saying he brought forward a budget that takes care of everybody, I think. It's just where we ended up. I'm wondering if, I'm just afraid next year when you had mentioned that, I mean, we've got three and a half million dollars of expenditures that is gonna have to disappear next year or the borrowing's gonna go up because that's where we are. Thank you very much. Thank you. Further discussion? Alderman Sikwitz. Yeah, I think this is the frustrating part is, And I, at finance, I brought it up, is when I said, and all the Reckleberg, I'm going to say this with the most due respect that I possibly can, then change it. We went through the deliberations at finance, and you talked about the borrowing of $600,000 more than what we're paying off. And I said, okay, let's open up to the capital borrowing. What do you want to cut? And there was 90 seconds of silence. and there was nothing. We talked about moving a fire truck, and we couldn't do that for purchasing reasons. But there was no other alternative brought up about what we wanted to cut. And then you voted for it out of finance, and now when it comes time, and you talk about all the great things we're doing for our employees, and when it's time to pay the piper, we're just gonna vote no. Okay. But when there's a project happening in District 10, you'll take all the credit in the world when Kellner gets done next year. But when it comes time again, the budget to do the hard work is hard, but when it comes time to vote for the budget, it's always a no. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman Reckelberg. In response, when I brought up the borrowing, it looked like we were all in agreement that we would borrow for half of that particular fire equipment, which would bring us not down to a zero increase, but something that was negotiable and I could live with. And everybody was in agreement. I agreed to forego that when we got more information at our next meeting that the fire chief brought forward that says, no, it's going to end up being delivered next year. We got to have the money. So that shot that idea. But I was happy that I brought up an idea. It was discussed, actually agreed to, and... But like I said, I was happy to forego that when we got additional information that says, can't do that or expect paying $85,000 more than the contract calls for. So I went along with that. In past years, you know, I have brought several pages worth of supposed changes, recommendations, and timing differences. One budget, it might have been two years ago, I can't remember, I brought in something where I guaranteed every department got everything they wanted. All we had to do is time it in certain fashions. Didn't get anywhere. So why should I bring anything forward? I simply am presenting the facts and explaining why I'm voting no. I don't know what to... The only thing I could think of is if we had a list like every budget usually has is what outlay items are in the budget, which are affected by the tax levy, that we could look at and say, well, it went through the mayor's office, it went through the department's office and whatever committee they have, but here at the city council, yeah, maybe we can hold off on that one or this one or that one. but we don't have a list of those outlay items. So what do you do? And I know you don't mean any disrespect. I hope you appreciate the work I put in, in looking at this and reviewing it, just as I do you, because I do know you're one of the ones that, yeah, you do look at all of the material. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman Schley. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. First of all, Let's stop this, you're both pretty, okay? Is this the budget we all want? No. Is this the budget we need right now? According to the citizens of Manitowoc who haven't said otherwise. We haven't had, as Alder Sitkiewicz mentioned, we haven't had one. Aldermen outside of the Finance Committee show up at all the Finance Committee meetings we've had, and we've had a ton, to address any issues about the budget. So it's not the one we want, it's the one we need, and I recommend that we approve this budget. Thank you. Thank you. Further discussion on the budget? Seeing none, I just want to say my thanks. I appreciate the Finance Committee, Alderman Sitkwitz for chairing and having several meetings to have conversations over the budget. I truly appreciate it. When you look at what other municipalities are going through with their budgets and citizens showing up and speaking very loudly about when there's recommendations for cuts, I think it does speak volumes that we've been very transparent and open about this budget, not lying to the citizens at all when we're asking them to pay a little more next year. for the services that they've come to expect and that I think we do an excellent job of providing. I think that does speak testament that we're asking them to pay more and they're not here storming City Hall because of that. So I appreciate all your hard work, staff's hard work. Moving forward, it is going to be difficult. We can't have 8% tax increases every year. There are difficult decisions that need to be made moving forward. I think we do that on a daily basis as staff. That's why when it gets to budget time, we don't necessarily have those conversations because we talk every day, especially Sean in the finance department, about making sure we're spending the taxpayers' money wisely in every area of city government. But Alderman Reckelberg, to your point, I've said it at finance, that $3.5 million fund balance applied scares me too. Now it gets down to $17 if we spend every single dime, which we haven't done in years past, which is why I'm confident in the way we've been running things that it definitely will not get there. But there are conversations we need to have in the upcoming years of where we need to start looking at departments and operations to make sure that we're providing the same service but not wasting a single taxpayer dollar. The budgets get tighter and tighter, and we can't have 8% tax increases every year. That's just not appropriate. This year, I think, as Alderman Sitkowitz rightly pointed out, we had some anomalies of large cost increases this year that were tied directly to personnel, tied directly to the people who provide the quality services that the citizens expect. But there is a point, too, where the citizens should not have to pay. more and more and more every year where we need to hunker down and make sure we're controlling the budget appropriately in future years. So I echo your sentiment, Alderman Reckelberg, but as Alderman Zitkut said, what do we cut? That's the choice we would have to make if we want to lower that $3.5 million, if we want to lower the tax rate increase, and if we want to lower borrowing. We just have to... face reality that it's cut versus more revenues. So appreciate the time that each of you took on the budget, truly. If you have anything else that anyone wants to share, comments, if not, then we will take a vote. All those in favor of approving the budget as recommended by the finance committee, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries nine to one. Alderman Reckelberg voting no. So that'll be forwarded. Thank you. Appreciate it. We will look to see tax bills. Every other tax entity has finalized. So we were looking at possibly mid-December is when tax bills would be going out to the general public. So Merry Christmas. Anything else that does exhaust our agenda? If not, then I would look for a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. We are adjourned.