Good evening, thank you. I call to order the April 2nd, 2025 public hearing and regular meeting of the Committee on Administration, Finance and Law and Public Services. The time is now 6.32 p.m. Ms. Clerk, would you please kindly call the roll? Thank you. Alderman Connors? Here. Alderman Barbosa? Here. Alderman McNamara? Here. Alderman Santiago? Here. Alderman Simpson. Present. Alderman Gibson. Here. Alderman Pabon. Here. Alderman Smedley. Alderwoman Beloyne-Savagia. Here. Alderman Russell. Here. You have a quorum also seated as Alderwoman Scott. Also Alderman Alden Russell is seated and voting member in place of Alderman Smedley. Thank you Ms. Clark. Appreciate it. All right. Sorry. Great. Ms. Clerk, will you please read into the record the notice of public hearing? Mr. Chair? Yes. I would like to make a motion to waive the reading of the legal notice. Seconded by Alderman Russell, we have a motion to waive the legal notice. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. The reading is waived. Thank you. Having been noticed properly, we will begin the public hearing. Please remember to state your name and address for the public record and limit your speaking time to three minutes. The items on the public hearing agenda are 36736 to amend Chapter 2, Article 19 of the Code of Ordinances regarding the Fair Rent Commission and Item 36750, Amendment to the Tax Modification Agreement for 321 Ellis Street. Are there any speakers on these items? Any speakers on these items? For a third time, any speakers on these items? All right, thank you. And anyone on the phones, thank you. Seeing no speakers, we will close public hearing and move on to the regular meeting. The time is now 6.34 p.m. The first item on the agenda is 36686-2, the meeting minutes of the Common Council Committee meetings. May I have a motion? Mr. Chair. Alderman Valencia-Pedra. I move. We have a second by Alderman Pavone. A motion to refer being made. Any discussion? Alderman Santiago? Mr. Chair, we were doing item number one, right? That's correct. At the time when this was put in, it was some haste, disagreements, and I feel that this could wait until next year when we put in for the... We're at about five months in. We have short staff. We don't have enough members to be able to go back and forth and do this. So I make a motion to table. I have a motion to table. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Alderman McNamara. Motion to table. It has discussion. No. All right. And seeing no roll call requests, I will make a motion motion of table all in favor say aye aye all in favor all opposed say nay no the ayes have it our clock is for the record party line thank you party line uh the uh motion to table carries thank you the next item on the agenda is item 36736 to amend chapter 2 Article 19 of the Code of Ordinances regarding the Fair Rent Commission. May I have a motion? Mr. Chair, I make a motion to accept and refer to the council with a neutral recommendation. I have a motion for a neutral recommendation made by Alderman Santiago. Second? Second, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Seconded by Alderman McNamara. At this time, do we have any speakers on this item or in any discussion? Yes. Maybe Jarrell and Linda could come to the podium I'd like to understand what's before us what's the changes and what is what's the effect of the changes. I would be happy to supplement anyone's testimony as well. Thank you good evening. Welcome. Jarrell Hargraves Human Rights and Opportunities Officer. What this resolution does this change and I worked on this with Alderman Connors over the past few months is it allows someone that got a notice to quit to file a complaint with the Fair Rent Commission. As our ordinances currently stand, if they begin any of the eviction proceedings whatsoever, we can't take a complaint. So right now I have someone, and if they say they got a notice to quit already, I can't accept their complaint. People did leave my office in tears at some points. So this would be that if the landlord already started the legal process, the summary process, which is the eviction process for nonpayment of rent, Not for a lapse of time. A lapse of time is like just your lease is up. And a lot of times landlords do that if they just want to get someone out. But this is only for non-payment of rent. It's the only way that we can't accept the complaints. So this is allowing more people to file complaints for the Fair Rent Commission. Chair? Yes, Alderman Bull, it's Pedro. You heard Alderman Santiago just make an argument that there's limited staff ability in the council office to take care of doing minutes for the meeting. So I'm just wondering if you add more people to your roster in terms of the Fair Rent Commission, are you properly staffed to handle the extra volume of activity? I have to do what I have to do. If it means working late, then you just have to take the complaints and do what you got to do. It's important that the residents have their due process and that their rent is being unfairly raised. I think it's important that they have that hearing in front of the commission. I agree with you. I just wanted to make the point that you're not going to use shortness of staff for not being able to accomplish a task that's assigned to you. This fair rent commission was not originally my job and I took on this role. And when I did take on the role, we're averaging about two complaints a year. We are now averaging about 25 complaints a year. And I appreciate that. I've reached out to you several times to ask you for data on fair rent, and you are doing a wonderful job. Can you just clarify again for me, and I'm sorry, I'm just with the legal terms, who is being added so that you can increase the amount of people who could come through fair rent? Yeah, so currently if you receive a notice to quit, so in order to start the eviction process, the landlord first must issue a notice to quit. And that notice to quit says, hey, you didn't pay your rent, I give you until, I give you two more weeks that you have to move out of this apartment. If they chose not to move out, then they can begin the actual legal eviction process and follow with the court and have it served and everything. So all those people before that got just that notice to quit, and I'm noticing that sometimes a landlord will just issue a notice to quit and then want to negotiate with the tenant to try to come up with a fair rent. So this allows, previously just with that notice to quit, We can't accept the complaint. So it just gives and allows more people to be able to file that complaint with the Fair Rent Commission. Mr. Chair? Thank you, Alderman Williams-Vadra. Alderman Santiago? Appreciate the work that you guys have worked together on this. It's actually pretty cool that at least other residents will be able to utilize the assistance. Now, specifically, you accept the applications, but who does the process? approvals and negotiations is between the commissions correct. So we do mediation between the landlord and tenant if they're willing to. So I do that sometimes with the assistive corporation counsel if there are attorneys involved sometimes like to get them involved but other than that I do the mediations and if they chose not to mediate if we don't come up with an agreement then it goes before the commission and the commission under state statute has the authority to limit that increase. And Mr. Chair from the past years. Obviously, there's a lot of applicants that have been processed because of the reasons of high rents, correct? Yes. So, again, it's how the system has been put in place now that we're having a lot of individuals coming to you that are requesting assistance because the rents have been between hundreds and thousands of dollars raised. Yes. Correct? And I appreciate you guys working together on this and that's coming to us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Santiago. Alderman McNamara. Mr. Hargay's note was an uptick, but when this was reconstituted and you took on the responsibility in the last couple of years, how dramatic has the increase in cases been? I know you try and mediate. You try and be a mediator as well, and then the last stop is at the commission. What's your caseload at the present time? Right now I have four open cases. And in the process they come in, the landlord is notified through certified mail that the complaint's been filed and to contact me, and then we try to begin that mediation process. If it doesn't go through, then I submit the case, I present the case before the commission. They'll decide if they want to dismiss it. If they think there's no merit, they'll dismiss it. But in most cases, they'll schedule that public hearing. And then the following month, both parties will come in. They have the right to be represented by council and state their case and why they think the rent shouldn't go up for the tenant and why it should go up for the landlord. And then the commission makes that decision, and their decisions are typically good for one year. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman McNamara. Alderman Scott, no, you won the contest, and then Alderman Simpson, and then Alderman Barbosa. Oh, boy. All right, sure. Do I call you? Call me whatever you like. Is it Alderman here, Jerome? I don't mind. Whatever your preference is. Got you. So I have referred so many people to the Fair Rent Commission in the past year. maybe two or three years now. I do thank you for the work that you do put into the commission. Thank you. Hearing the administrative capacity here, I do welcome these changes. And I'll say that because this language doesn't mandate it increasing cases. And I will just have a small point of information that every single one of these cases is born out of... the bare minimum a disagreement over what is reasonable and conscionable rent. It is not necessarily roadblocks like the one we have here that we are seeking to be rid of that determine caseload by itself. And remind me, these cases, how long do they last on average? It can take a few months. So what we were doing is once the case is presented to the commission they decide to hold a public hearing. That public hearing is the following month and then they don't make a decision until the next month. So it's like a three month process. The commission just made a decision that they're gonna try to start making decisions the same night instead of waiting that extra month unless more information is needed from the tenants or the landlords. Got you okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman I'd like to offer a friendly amendment to the motion. just to change it from a neutral to a favorable recommendation. I have an amendment on the floor to change from a neutral to a favorable. I second it by Alderman Santiago. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. Well, that is awfully wonderful and encouraging. Thank you. The ayes have it. And as amended, correct back to the resolution as being discussed. Pardon. on amendment Mr. Chair I would like to withdraw my amendment my your motion to refer the favorable motion to refer exactly thank you and Alderman Simpson would you like to state a motion. Sure I'd like to make a motion to refer this back to the council with a favorable recommendation. Do I have a second second second by Alderman Santiago and thank you again that would see a discussion wonderful and we can continue the discussion. Alderman Scott. Politeness contest. Alderman Barbosa. I just want to say thank you to you, to your department, to Alderman Connors. I see this as a step moving towards helping our residents in the city of New Britain. We're in a state right now where we don't know what's going to happen to anybody. and having this service to the people who are really struggling and need it the most. I really appreciate that and I really appreciate you guys thinking about the people of New Britain and serving them the way that we're supposed to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Alderwoman Barbosa. Alderwoman Scott. I want to thank you as well. And I am glad that you guys worked on this today alone. I spoke to two people that are at risk of becoming unhomed. Um, so, and every day I think I speak to at least one person, some of the people that I speak to, I know personally. So it's really hard when we don't have resources or anything to help these people with finding a place to live when they're at risk, direct risk of like tomorrow I have to have my stuff out of the house. You know, um, I'm hearing that too often and we just don't have enough affordable housing and, or resources. And so I'm glad that even if somebody is going to have an eviction, they're going to be able to come after this is done. And that's so needed because a lot of people don't even know about the fair rent housing until they're being evicted. They're asking for help when it's too late for them to get services. So now we're going to make it more accessible for people, which I think this is extremely important. and actually signed off on it when you guys put it in the first time because I feel like this is so important. And another thing I want to go back to something that Alderwoman said earlier about the having enough staff. I think once the fair rent housing grows you are going to need more staff for that. In other cities it is a bigger operation than what we have here and I think that it's I don't want to like nitpick at what people are saying but I think that that was kind of a insensitive comment that was made and I don't appreciate unsensitive comments because I want us to be peaceful and be reasonable with what we're stating that we don't have I don't want to go back to I wish I had been able to speak at the last resolution but that we do we do have a lack of resources here and we do have a lot of work to do within our city to improve things so I'm really happy that you're doing this so thank you. Thank you Alderman Scott. Alderman Pavone. Yes thank you. How much power does the Fair Rep Commission, can they tell the landlord what to charge? They can yes. And the landlord would have to follow that? They can appeal to the Superior Court. So that's the only recourse is you can appeal to the Superior Court. And what happens is the judge won't overturn the commission's decision. They'll just say whether or not it was just, and they'll send it back to the commission if they so need to. Okay, thank you. And might I just add that when they do file a complaint with the Fairbanks Commission, they are covered from retaliation under Section 47A, that has 28 general statutes for a period of six months that the landlord can't just try to retaliate and evict the tenant just for filing that complaint. And in addition, when they do file that complaint, their rent will stay the same as it was before. So they're not paying that increase until it's resolved. They may have to pay back dues because it's going to be retroactive once the decision is made, but they're going to keep paying that old rent until decision is made. Thank you, Alderman Hargraves. And thank you, Alderman. Alderman Russell. I would like just. To make a comment, I don't think it's insensitive at all to ask a department if they're understaffed and overworked. That was just a question as well. That's all I would like to make that comment. Thank you. Thanks, Alderman Russell. And if I may, I just want to very sincerely thank Alderman Hargraves. We worked for a long time. I want to thank everyone here, too, because this was a bipartisan change and things being what they are these days, it's just nice to get together and make a small change to a already very good ordinance that was passed by a prior council and a small tweak that will allow more people to take advantage of a good program. And it's something that we all can and should get behind. And for a brief moment, maybe we can all sing Kumbaya and hold hands. But thank you. And if I don't see any other discussion, hopefully, I will just say all in favor of the resolution say aye. Aye. All opposed nay. Very gratefully I say thank you and the resolution will move on to the Common Council. The third and last item on the agenda, 36750, a wonderful tax modification agreement for 321 Ellis Street. Do I have a motion on this one? Alderman Santiago. Mr. Chair I make a motion to accept and refer to the council with a neutral recommendation. And seconded by Alderman Russell. And any discussion. Mr. Chair. Alderwoman Bologna-Savedra. I don't know if Mr. Cummings is going to come up or if Michael's going to come up if someone just can explain the change. It's been here it's been through the council a couple of times maybe we could just get the highlights. My apologies. If you wouldn't mind I'll start and then we can all take turns here. Thank you. Yes, good evening Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. We're here tonight, it's, as you're aware, at the culmination of a very exciting project and a tremendous redevelopment project for the, especially the east side of the city and the entrance to the city. The, as you'll hear from Mr. Rabina, the project manager, The project just received its CO. People are moving in. I mean, it's just an unbelievable turnaround from what used to be and for so many years was a dumping ground to a beautiful new residence for 154 units. The reason we're here tonight is to ask for another modification to the tax modification agreement that was initially approved back in 2021. And that was part of the piecing together the financing to make this come to fruition. And, of course, what happened along the way is once that was put in place, then it was discovered additional contamination that had to be taken care of before construction actually started. So then we pushed out, the council agreed to push out the tax modification agreement for a year so that work could be done first and then the commencement of the construction. Then they actually were able to commence instruction, were able to get it done, but not quite before October 1 of 2024. It just recently got to CO. So that would kick the 25-year start date until next tax year, which would throw off the whole financing of the project because this year we would want the – the tax modification to commence, not be a year apart where there would be a huge jump for this particular tax year. So the request is that the tax modification agreements, 25 years, that it start as of the October 1, 2024 grant list, not October 1, 2025. And if I may, I'd like to ask Mr. Rabina to come up just to give you an overview. I don't know if you've been by lately, but it's really an exciting project that you'll all get a chance to see. Mr. Rabina. Great. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Matthew Rabina. I'm the project manager for wind development who's been overseeing this project for the past several years. As Mr. Carrier just stated, we received our temporary certificate of occupancy last week, which was a huge milestone, and really a big thank you to the city staff who made it happen. Building department was incredible to work with. The economic development department with Jack Benjamin, also a huge part of this. We started moving people in on Monday. As of today, three days later, we've got 15 people moved in, another 10 by Friday. Hope to have 80 in by the end of the month. There's been huge, huge demand for this. I know we were just talking about the need for affordable housing. I just want to remind everyone this is 100% income-restricted project. We've got 32 units at 30% of the area median income, 40 units at 50% area median income, 29 at 60%, and then 53 at 80%. So far, we have over 100 units that are pre-leased, so that means we have people who are fully income-certified and it's just a matter of them coming in, signing the lease, and moving in. We're hoping that we'll have all the units filled by the end of June, if not, then hopefully the middle of July. So we're really excited that this is finally done. Hoping to have a groundbreaking either the end of May or beginning of June, which will extend invitations to everyone, too, and would love to have you guys come and see the building now that it's complete. Other woman, Belinda. Thank you. I'm fully supportive of it. I've loved this project since it first came. before us. Of the 154 units, and they're all at some level income-based, so sliding fee depending on where you are, can you describe the units in terms of senior units, units for people with disabilities? Do you have certain units that are set aside for people? Yeah, not quite a set-aside. So we have 79 of the units as one-bedroom units, and there's been a lot of interest from seniors for those, especially for the lower-income bands, a lot of people living on fixed income, either Social Security or 401K. So we've had a lot of – I don't have the exact numbers of people who meet that senior qualification, but we have a lot of those. We do have a partnership with CCARC. for 10 of the units. So they're placing 10 of their clients, actually I should say 12 of their clients in 10 of the units. All of those units are supported with rental assistance through the Department of Housing. And it's this partnership between DDS and Department of Housing to specifically support those folks. They're gonna be staffed 24 seven with a case manager in the building. And then we have another 11 units through the Section 811 program, which are for people who are either at risk of homelessness, or who are coming from another supportive service agency. Those are vouchers that are serviced by directly by the Department of Housing. I think it's a very exciting program. We talk a lot about housing and we have all different types of housing developments but this particular housing development hits right at the heart of what a lot of people are talking about in terms of affordable housing for our population. So thank you very much. I'll be supporting your request. Thank you. Thank you Alderman Williams-Savedra. Alderman Santiago. Thank you Mr. Chair. Again, I will be supporting. The only question I did have was, was it going to be extended the 25 years? So it would have been 26 to 25. But the clarification was that it would actually be sooner than it would be. So I'm definitely supporting this. And I went through the tour. Really nice, beautiful apartments. There really are. And I urge adoption. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Santiago. Alderman Scott. Hi, I really love these apartments. I think they're beautiful. I just have one thing I have to speak on behalf of my constituents. There is a lot of concern that there aren't enough affordable units available. It filled up very quickly and the lowest income actually people who are on Social Security are over the income. So I'm hearing a lot of complaints. So I don't know, is there any way that we could possibly consider getting more units or a way to get people that are below that 24, I think it's 24,000 cutoff? Because if you're on Social Security, you don't make that much. Yeah. No, it's a really valid concern, and I've been hearing it a lot too. So the... I'll start by saying that for the 154 apartments, we have over 1,000 applications that have come in so far. So there's a huge need, much more than just what we individually in this project can serve, unfortunately. The way that the project is financed is that there is also a significant – there's a lot of layers to the financing. So you get the tax credits from CHFA. You get the historic credits from the state and from the feds. But then we also have to support a private mortgage like any landlord would. And so that mortgage was sized based on a certain number of 30s, a certain number of 50s. And so we really can't shift more towards the affordable piece. Starting over four years ago, would we have gone to the state and said, we ultimately can't support as much debt and want to provide greater affordability? We would have made that argument to them, but they're also trying to stretch resources as far as they can. So, you know, happy to speak about specific folks that, you know, we're at this point completely full on the 30s and have a few of the 50s left. But that's, you know, for someone making between $40,000 and $50,000. Right. There's a huge need. There really is. Even, like, the two bedrooms, a lot of people were not in that bracket. Mm-hmm. to be able to live there. So I just wanted to bring that up because I'm hearing a lot. I hear it all the time. Yeah. You know, I was trying to encourage people to go there and live there. And, you know, it was all full or they're like, I don't even make that much money. You know, I can't live there. So. Yeah. The 30s and 50s filled up. But they can use Section 8. They can. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And what other income help do you guys have then? So 60% AMI and then 80% AMI. So the 80% AMI is really like workforce housing. It's really not, you know, the rents are comparable to what you're seeing here downtown. You know, I'd say that's the greatest, you know, I said we have over 100 pre-lease. The ones that we have the most vacancy in right now are in those 80% units. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Scott. Alderman Valencia-Vedra. Can you just walk us through how this particular tax abatement works? Sure. Good evening. Again, this is a tax abatement for low-moderate income housing, and it's covered under our enterprise zone ordinance. So the council could vote to institute an abatement like this for a period of years, which it did for 25 years. And you did, and we've had a couple modifications with this, just like everybody knows, any kind of construction project, you know, timelines are out there, but you miss them by just a little bit. And with assessment years and so forth, they kind of make a big deal contractually. So here in this deal, what was originally agreed to was that they would pay – $600 per unit, and there's going to be 154 units, so that would be $92,400 a year. And the original intent was that there would be a certificate of occupancy, at least one, or a bunch of temporary COs as of October 1 of 24. And they missed it by a little bit. But that's a big deal for them and for anybody because assessors as of October 1st of every year are required to assess property based on its rate of completion and without the contract in place that would have put a burden on this property to pay property taxes on a property then they're not one they're not realizing any income towards and also towards a normal valuation without the benefit of the program so all this all this resolution tonight is doing this modification is just bringing back the 25-year period to start as of October 1 of 24 and it was just going to start one year sooner. That's it. Just one follow-up question. Prior to this group coming in and doing the Ellis Street Commons when it was vacant property were we collecting property taxes on that vacant space? Yes. Yes. At the same level of this or less than? Less than even the $92,400. So it was just a little bit more than half of that, but still it was a much lesser sum. I just think it's important when we talk about tax abatements, people sometimes focus on not getting the full value of the money and not realizing that prior to any development going in, we were getting even less. So even with the tax abatement, the city is still pulling in more tax money than we would if the project didn't go there. Correct. And every year that this goes forward, there's a 3% increment on everything there. And it doesn't cover any personal property or anything like that that's owned by the apartment complex. So, you know, it's going to bring in additional personal property, motor vehicle taxes for people that own cars and all that. So, yep. Yep. Thank you, Alderman Valencia-Vedra. Any other discussion or questions? All right. Thank you. Seeing no further discussion, the motion is to refer with a neutral recommendation. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. The ayes have it. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Alderman McNamara. I'd like a motion to take from the table Resolution 36619, neighborhood flood relief for discussion. Second. We have a second. We have seconded by Alderman Santiago. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed nay. The ayes have it. We have removed from the table Alderman McNamara, can you repeat the item number please? That's 36619. Thank you. The item is removed from the table. Any discussion on the item? Would you like to introduce? Yeah, let me try and unpack it from where we left off. In November, we had an extensive discussion of this program that would provide aid to homeowners to avert facing the risk of flooding on their property linked to our stormwater sewer system. And I, there were amendments made by, I believe, Alderman Santiago and Alderman Belon Saavedra. And then we wanted to, it was tabled for further discussion at that time. And essentially, the changes are indicated in this substitute that I want to introduce to replace the original resolution. And I think it would be appropriate, I don't know where this is going, but it would be appropriate just to move that this be, the substitute be accepted in terms of what is under consideration now as opposed to several months ago. I would defer to corp counsel is a amendment required to substitute language for a item removed from the table. Yes you're making an amendment. I mean he can substitute this. Is that what you're wanting to do when you want to do a line by line amendment. Yes I'll I'll make that motion and I can go through the changes. Second. We have a motion to substitute language made by Alderman McNamara, seconded by Alderman Santiago. All in favor say aye. You guys look so similar. I'd like to, yes. So great. Alderman McNamara, please go through the changes. The following changes are further down in the resolution. The first change is In terms of the whereas homeowner assistance, the program is placed within the Department of Public Works. And we'll provide a grant of up to $7,500 to owner-occupied dwellings of up to one to three units on a first-come, first-served basis. The second is a new whereas below that, that recipients retain their eligibility for the Rapid Response Service, which I'm not sure was just getting going at that time, and the claims process in the event of damages to properties. And as I recall, the discussion went to narrowing the eligible activities and improvements, which I think there was a consensus to make items available that would prevent damage before we get to claims and the business of the city compensating people for it to avoid, avert damages. And in that sense, and the definitions seem to fit here, of sump pumps, French drains, deleted was lateral replacements, but includes window wells, basement windows, and I for flexibility purposes, inserted related prevention fixtures. And you'll see the other deletions there. As the Corp Council pointed out, I believe, these are addressed and have been addressed, particularly with increasingly addressed by claims of injury to the Corp Council and the Claims Committee in terms of Boiler can cost more than $7,500, bigger compensations for people who can prove their case. And finally, in the last paragraph with regard to funding, I felt it would be good to bring this back as we get into our planning what's going to be done in the next fiscal year so that can be a measure of how effective it can be in terms of because this is a pilot program. largely based, as we discussed, on the city of Hartford's program. And that was that the proposed $500,000 come from unassigned fund balances, grants, if we're lucky to get any more federal grants, or available appropriations in fiscal year 2026. And so I, those are the very substantive changes that were worked out at the last time this was before the committee. And I'd invite questions or comments on the substitute. And everybody should have a copy of it. You don't. The most important person does, Alderman Valencia-Vedra, who can lead the discussion. I'll leave my own mind. John, excuse me, Alderman McNamara, do you have a hard number of what 120% of the area of medium income is? What is that as a number? Yeah, well, I talked to Wyanne Robinson, Ms. Wyanne Robinson, City of Hartford, that by the way, their program greatly expanded. They got ARPA money and $9 million that the state assumed where they help a whole bunch of people, mainly because of three hurricanes. Our situation is different. It's an ongoing issue with stormwater sewer problems. But they started out at $500,000. And Wyand provided information in terms of how they break down the eligibility. with regard to income. It's 120% of AMI, which I think I knew what that stood for last November. Area medium income. Thank you very much. And grant recipients household income should not exceed 120% of AMI. Single person household, 87,000 on up to 5,000 five members in the household, 135,000, or six, 145,000, on a scale. So it is, I think, for working, middle-income people in cities, as I take it, the way they've set that up. Do you have a number for a two-person home? Yeah, 100,000, 128. 128,000? Yeah, and I... No, no, 100,000, 128. So I'll just say 100,000. Yeah. Okay. And parenthetically, she indicated at the time, and this was late last year, or maybe early this year. It's an application process subject to city approval of what it's being used for. Obviously, property motor vehicle taxes, outstanding parking tickets must be paid or brought current before eligibility starts. And the aid would not come without people meeting those obligations. She also said it catered to both individuals and small businesses. This proposal is for residences, as it stands now. And the total participants in this communication were about 70 people. And again, they started and ran this for a couple of years, I understand. And then the federal ARPA money was used to address serious, I think there was a lot of publicity around this in North Hartford at the time. So, so that's, that's what the, the information they provided. So let me, let me ask you this. In the first whereas where you added the Department of Public Works and it says provide a grant up to $7,500. I know I said this at the last meeting and maybe this language takes care of it, but I think any singular homeowner should only have a bite at the apple once in this pilot period so that the most residents can have access to it. So I don't think anyone should be able to come and seek $7,500 twice in the same calendar or the same fiscal year. That way more individual homeowners would have an opportunity to apply for this money. So I don't know if that language addresses that, but I feel very strongly about that. So you, Mr. Chairman, it does sound reasonable to me because as the other clause states, people do incur damage they are eligible for the other programs the city provides. Plus this program isn't about what happens after the damage this is about a prevention. I think we talked a lot about focusing this on prevention and obviously first there has to be an issue for us to understand that they need prevention but what we're offering is is prevention. So obviously they'd still get to go through the rapid response in the claims committee. But I'm only supporting this as a prevention measure at the 7,500 limit. And I really believe it has to be that you only get, during the pilot especially, only one bite at the apple so that we can help as many people as possible. Yeah, as a pilot, if you're saying one time, during the course of this, which would probably be people with these problems, they tend to recur with these problems. So if it's once a year or just applicants are limited to one ask. Yes. Good. Mr. Chair, Alderman Santiago. I agree. The purpose was for this resolution was for... when it does happen, that they were able to get some kind of assistance to prevent it from happening again. And then after that, be honest. The issue should be somewhat resolved that they don't have to come back to apply for the assistance again. So yeah, I do agree that it should be a one-time thing, unless there's something recurrent that was other than you know, from whatever occurred from that previous issue. Maybe, you know, a flooding one and a sewer is another, but at the moment for this pilot, as it is as a pilot, we should allow, you know, individuals to be, more individuals to be able to utilize this program. I agree with you on that. Thank you. So if there's any clarification that we need into the, to amend, maybe we might want to take a look at it again and, you know, we'll take whatever and fix those wording. We can return it to the table with that change or change it now. I'm I just want to understand I want to get in and I'm sorry Nate I just I just want to get the process rolling as we think about what we want to do next year in terms of budgeting moving ahead. Thank you. Alderman Simpson patiently waiting. Thank you. So I just want to start with I am totally supportive of this. I think a question is how because. course we don't want like a handful of applicants dominating the entire process and boxing other folks from being able to apply at the same time if somebody is responsible for multiple properties that I don't know somebody owns like maybe two or three houses on the same street which does happen in New Britain if that area is dealing with the same area of flooding I kind of want that person to be able to put in an application, at least for each property, to spread out the material benefit for the people actually living in those houses. Does that make sense? Point of clarification, I think this only applies to owner-occupied properties, so we're not even talking landlords. Good to know. Thank you. I got two questions. Okay, where would the funding come for the $7,500? And the next one was... I thought we were having somebody from Hartford come down and give us a spiel on how they're doing it. To your point, I talked to three people in Hartford and have collected information that I'll share with you in terms of correspondence, including the woman I just talked about who was at City Hall in Hartford. There was a manager when they got lots more money at the Blue Hills Civic Association. And the state provided millions to do it. And I have that data. And so they provided, I recognize they're not here, but they provided how it works. And essentially it's an application process that the city verifies what it's for. And as we've talked about the sidewalk program, which the city has standards. and can do that. So I can provide you more information. Are we gonna start? Or I can endeavor to bring somebody from Hartford to talk about it when it comes to a vote. Okay. Can I just give you an example on Hampton Street of a woman who's spoken to us? $3,435. a sump pump installation and she said the sewage in her basement and so that if she had that she you know she she could she could have prevented damage and she had that installed a retiree you know how we're trying to help you. So we would have to set up a committee to handle this stuff only and So where are we going to get the money to start it off? Because we're going to need some money to, if you're going to start giving people $7,500. All the, thank you, Alderman Fulton. What is amendment, what the amendments to the end was that had described it would be coming from either grants or one of the recommendations I had offered to John was, Mr. McNamara, Alderman McNamara was that maybe a percentage of end of year budget, you know, when the budget's over and we have the audit at the end of the year. So it's not coming that we take this money from our existing budget, but it would come from money that would recur. Like last year, we had $3 million that was transferred over from the last year's budget. So we would take a percentage up to $500,000. You're claiming $500,000 from that budget to use it for the pilot. OK. So who's going to make the judgment? We're going to have to have a committee, won't we? So what committee? Good recommendation. You mean a committee of the council or? Committee to handle all this. A staffing issue. Yeah. In terms of the capacity being there. And I think it was Alderman Saavedra who pointed out, as Alderman Santiago pointed out, the, you know, the, available balances that are transferred into the new budget each year. We did, I think, a dozen things, including balancing some funds, money for musical instruments in the schools. There was quite a list. And we're left with a remaining balance of $3.8 million in the unassigned fund balance. And in terms of, so I see it as a staffing issue that we'll have to have a dialogue with the administration about how that gets done. But I think there is existing capacity, as there was in Hartford, to handle the applications and do the necessary inspections. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Alderman Pabon. Thank you, Alderman McNamara. I just wanted to point out, I believe, when we were... Going back and forth on this that we it was at least discussed that the claims committee under our existing structure would would most likely be able to process these. I think correct me if I'm wrong but we do have existing structures under the claims committee process that this would possibly be added onto that but could be wrong. Alderman Simpson. Alderman Simpson Mr. Chair I just also want to remind us given our limit here and the fact that like were presented with taking $500,000. Unlike fair rent commission cases, we've defined the maximum, or essentially we've defined the capacity needed to run such a program. So if we can find folks who can administer between 66 and probably 100 applications over the course of a year, using these very simple eligibility requirements I guess I have a question for Corporation Council would it be appropriate for maybe a city commission to take these on or would this just be city staff sorry to pick on you that's okay I mean I guess that's up to you guys it's right now it's saying that this amendment is saying that it's within the Department of Public Works So it's saying that the Public Works Department, as I read the amendment, would make that determination. So it would not be within a committee of the council or a commission. Mr. Chair? Alderman Santiago? I think, just to answer your question, I think there was a recommendation last meeting that it was a program, I think the sidewalk program, that we could kind of... recurred both as the same program, you know, using the same method as the sidewalk program to do this same program. I think that's what was mentioned last meeting, that the same formula would be used to do the same program. I think that's part of what we were discussing. If I'm correct. Through you, Mr. Chair. So it's in DPW to mimic the sidewalk program. Okay, thank you. That clarifies it. Thank you, Alderman Simpson. Alderman McNamara, do you have your microphones on? Well, just not to prolong it, Thank you. I think Mark Moriarty pointed out at the time that it is a cost-sharing program, the sidewalk, that might exceed – the cost might exceed if you have a fancy sidewalk. I don't know how fancy sidewalks get these days, but – or I think it's the length of the sidewalk you have to do on your property, right? So it is a cost-sharing program, so something could cost more than $7,500, but I think the majority of help would be under that limit, and I'd hope to have to measure outcomes to see if it's worth looking for sustainability, 70 to 100 people could be helped by this. Thank you, Alderman McNamara. I just want to thank John for looking into this and I do I think this will be a wonderful help to a lot of people that have this problem are they going to be able to like if somebody say someone has a pump already they can still get help maybe with the French draining or a second pump if they need a second one well they might have a broken pump I don't know Willie can tell you more about that than me. Yeah, I think it is a doable scale that can avert property damage before we get into talking to Corp Council, which has, I think they can, before it gets to the claims committee, they can award up to $5,000, for example. And then it gets to claims and the data provided by Corp Council Uh, there were three or four, four or five years ago, uh, claims for flooding. And I think in 2023, there were 26 or seven. Yeah. Uh, coming to claim. So this is also holds down, uh, risk management costs, potentially. Right. In terms of what the city pays out. Yeah. And, yeah. Yeah, we save a lot of money when we act proactively and prevent things from happening. I paid a lot of money to go to college to say that. And you know but you know a lot of times in this country we don't we don't really you know do that. So I really I hope that we do do this and that we can you know once someone's house floods then we get on top of it. But they don't have to have a claim to do this. They would just fill out an application out right. OK. DIRECTOR DEWOLF- All right. Yeah I think the next step is we either table and rework it to include And there is time next month to insert it into the budget discussions of how we move. And also, in the interim, I will send all the stuff I've gotten from Hartford to people in terms of what they have done. And you'll see photos of these actual things they get for people that we distributed last year. But the cause of that was three hurricanes in Hartford. And – but I can't imagine – they must have stormwater issues, too. But our issue – and it's a long-term issue with flush and such. It's going to take years and years to address these issues. We used 13 million – 15 million of ARPA money on this very issue, right? So I think it can prove it. And I found examples in Illinois, in New York State, not just Hartford. It's a very common program with people confronting these issues. So I'd support the motion to table. Hold on a second. Oh, you haven't made it, right. Alderman Russell's got next, and perhaps he would even like to make a motion to table. I just got a quick question. Are we talking, so each property, are they going to be allowed to put in multi, just one? But what if they don't reach that 75,000? Are they going to be allowed to? So this bill I can share with you, Alden Russell, of sewage in a basement on Hampton Street. She got help by... a sump pump system at $3,500. So many of the, I think, my sense is, I don't know, a lot of these preventive steps, French drains and other things, are accomplished below that level. Right. What I'm getting at, if that $3,500 doesn't help, is she going to be allowed to put another claim in to add to that work? There might be an additional item up to that limit, but that is what... although she might have sent me another bill, that helped her avert further damage. Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Russell. And just to reiterate, the limit's the limit, it sounds like. Mr. Chair, just to answer Scott's question of the pump. I mean, again, if she didn't go through the process and she did that on her own and then it continues to have the issue, She has the opportunities, I'm correct, to be able to apply. And maybe whoever assessed might say, hey, recommend French drains or something else that might help divert the water from going into her home or the sewer system or whatever. But because she has not used it, so it won't be, I don't think she would be affected by not being able to apply. Mr. Chair. Thank you, Alderman Santiago. Alderman Russell. I make a motion to table this item to further amendments made. Second. Motion to table made by Alderman Russell, seconded by Alderman Santiago. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Item is tabled. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn, seconded by Alderman Pabon. All in favor? Aye. Have a great night. Ayes have it. The time is 7.33. It's just a little too late.