Is everyone ready? Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the January 20th City Commission Workshop. It's a goal-setting workshop to discuss our goals for the upcoming year. So, Josh, I'm going to turn it over to you. Great. Thank you, Mayor. I appreciate it. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and City Commissioners. This is your fiscal year 27 workshop for the upcoming budget preparation season. In years past, as you all know, We have hosted a goal-setting workshop usually in the month of March or April, immediately following the most recent election. Although I am always ready to discuss with each of you in this body your visions and aspirations for the city, I find it critical for staff and out of respect for the integrity of the budget creation process that we do this exercise now, annually in January, immediately before staff begins working on the upcoming budget. For fiscal year 27, staff will begin creating that budget within the next week. The budget prep cycle will last until you adopt a budget eight months from now in September. It is important we get your current perspective on the upcoming fiscal year as opposed to three months from now. However, tonight's workshop will be different from your previous goal-setting workshops. In light of multiple bills moving through the Florida House, which may significantly reduce our tax base and may also significantly reduce the services we regularly provide to our residents and guests, I find it crucial to discuss the remainder of this fiscal year, fiscal year 26, as well as the fiscal year 27 budget I will present to you for adoption later this September. This evening, I do not plan on reviewing the existing objectives and goals that you have adopted in the fiscal year 26 budget as a result of your 2024 goal-setting meeting. Trust those items remain in the queue. Staff is working on them as time and funding allows. And I can provide you with a detailed update on these items at a future meeting. Of course, if you have any specific questions about any of your existing goals and objectives, I'm more than happy to provide and or get you an answer. Bottom line, tonight I'm looking for your guidance and feedback on planning for this and next fiscal year amid ongoing state discussions on property tax reform. I'll start off this evening by providing you with a brief review of some bills moving through the Florida House. I'll then provide you with my current plan for the rest of fiscal year 26, as well as my strategy for the creation of the fiscal year 27 budget. Finally, I will turn the floor back over to you for your questions, comments, and or concerns, as well as any additions or edits you may have for me going forward. As of this evening, there are multiple bills moving through the state legislature, which can reduce the city's ad valorem tax revenue. I'll describe a few. House Joint Resolution 201 is a proposed constitutional amendment seeking to eliminate all local government property taxes on qualifying homestead properties, of which approximately 68% of our properties are homesteaded. If House Joint Resolution 201 is passed and will be implemented by the statewide ballot, the City of Safety Harbor would see an approximately $5 million revenue decrease in property taxes. This represents a 57% loss in ad valorem property tax revenue. House Joint Resolution 205 is a proposed constitutional amendment seeking to fully exempt homestead properties from local government property taxes if the owners of the property are 65 years old or older. If passed and implemented by statewide ballot, the City of Safety Harbor would experience an approximately $2 million reduction in revenue, a 24% loss of ad valorem revenue. And finally, one more example, House Joint Resolution 207 is a proposed constitutional amendment that would provide a homestead exemption equal to the amount of 25% of the property's assessed value and applied after the existing exemptions for non-school property taxes. If approved and implemented by a statewide ballot, the city could see an approximately $1 million loss in revenue or a 14% reduction in ad valorem property tax revenue. The state legislature is scheduled to end on March 13th. However, the government is proposing a special session to discuss property tax reform by itself with the goal of having clear ballot language for voters in November. Regardless, as the session continues, we should gain more clarity on what bills have died and what bills are still being considered. We should have even more clarity come August on what bills or bills may be going to a statewide ballot this November. Any ballot initiative would need at least 60% approval from the state's eligible voters to implement. If passed, and once an implementation plan is adopted, we should expect to be impacted by any reform the beginning of fiscal year 28, which is October 1, 2027. Staff will begin planning for that budget one year from today. As of this evening, we have 21 months to plan, and I intend to use all this time to ensure we are ready for what I think is a new reality in service delivery for the community. Resources define capacity. With fewer resources, we will be required to do less, not more. That said, I'm asking the City Commission for their guidance, feedback, and blessing on the following strategic initiatives that I plan to implement for the remainder of this fiscal year. Initiative 1. EXPAND PUBLIC EDUCATION EFFORTS TO INFORM SAFETY HARBOR RESIDENTS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL AND PROJECTED IMPACTS OF PROPOSED PROPERTY TAX REFORM. THIS MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL CITIESCAPE ARTICLES, SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS, MESSAGES AND WATER BILLS, ADVISORY BOARD UPDATES, ADDITIONAL COMMISSION WORKSHOPS, AND TOWN HALL-LIKE EVENTS. INITIATIVE TWO, DEVELOP A COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT PROGRAM TO IDENTIFY WHICH PROGRAMS AND SERVICES SAFETY HARBOR RESIDENTS VALUE MOST. This may include surveys, visiting local HOAs, soliciting feedback from advisory boards, and community meetings at various city facilities. Initiative three, collaborate with all department heads to identify all potential revenue streams authorized by the state of Florida and develop a plan to expand their use. For example, this may include the creation of fire assessment fees, land development code updates, building permit fee increases, and recreation fee increases. Initiative four, collaborate with all department heads to review current fiscal year budgets and identify projected expenses that may become unfunded or require deferral into future years. This may include delaying projects and new initiatives. And finally, initiative five, create a fiscal year 27 budget proposal which maintains the city's current millage rate of 3.9500 and plans to use no reserves to balance the budget. In contrast, for this current fiscal year, we maintained a 3.9500 millage rate and balanced the budget with a plan to use $630,500 in reserves, which was less than we planned to use in fiscal year 25, $1.5 million. It is my recommendation that we balance the budget going forward without utilizing reserves. Using reserves to cover recurring operating expenses masks the fact that ongoing revenues are no longer sufficient to support ongoing costs. Furthermore, we should maintain our reserves FOR CRUCIAL FINANCIAL STABILITY, COVERING UNEXPECTED EMERGENCIES, FUNDING MAJOR CAPITAL PROJECTS WITHOUT SPECIAL TAXES, AND ENSURING CONTINUITY OF ESSENTIAL SERVICES. CITY COMMISSION, IN CLOSING, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT WE ARE NOT APPROACHING THESE CHALLENGES ALONE. ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE WORKING TO MANAGE THESE POSSIBLE FINANCIAL IMPACTS. WITH YOUR DIRECTION AND WITH THE DEDICATION AND PROFESSIONALISM OF OUR STAFF, WE WILL USE THE MONTHS AHEAD TO PREPARE RESPONSIBLY COMMUNICATE CLEARLY WITH OUR COMMUNITY AND POSITION SAFETY HARBOR TO ADAPT TO WHATEVER OUTCOMES EMERGE FROM THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA VOTERS. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, AND I OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR CONCERNS YOU MAY HAVE, AS WELL AS ANY SPECIFIC PROJECTS OR ACTION ITEMS YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO SPECIFICALLY BUDGET FOR NEXT FISCAL YEAR. THANK YOU. MAYOR, I'LL TURN IT BACK TO YOU. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. I'M JUST GOING TO OPEN UP TO THE CITY COMMISSION AND SEE... YEAH, I THINK ONE THING, I LIKE THOSE INITIATIVES. I THINK THEY'RE ALL, I'M IN FAVOR OF ALL THE INITIATIVES. I MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE A, I GUESS, AN INITIATIVE IN BETWEEN ONE AND TWO, AND THAT WOULD BE THE PRIORITIZATION OF CITY SERVICES. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S KIND OF LIKE BASIC NEEDS hierarchy of needs like you know you got water sewer you got garbage pickup I mean there needs to be some sort of hierarchy so that it would help us to kind of like identify that some of the things like parks and recreation some of the things that may have to go by the wayside in order to provide basic services I know We have fees, et cetera, that fund a lot of that stuff for water, sewer, et cetera. But it would be nice to have some sort of prioritization and kind of explain top to bottom how things are prioritized as far as meeting the needs, the basic needs of citizens and what is kind of just fluff that we were able to get in Safety Harbor because it's a great community. So I just, I think it's necessary that we identify that and then kind of add everything in so that then we can identify or have the public identify programs they most value. So, because I think if we know the priority list, THEN WE GET INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC OF WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO THEM, AND WE KNOW WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO US TO MEET BASIC NEEDS. WE LIKE THEM ALL. YEAH, THAT'S IT. SO WITH NUMBER ONE, I THINK THERE'S THIS THING OF ALSO OVERSATURATION WITH INFORMATION, AND I THINK YOU... I think there's a right amount. I guess one of the best examples I can use is I do the town hall meetings every year. At one point I was doing them more often and then less people were coming in and people just lost interest. So then I was like, all right, let's just scale it back. I'll do it once a year. And that seemed to me the right amount of engagement to get. I'm worried that if we do too much pushing through cityscape, well, I guess one, there are laws, state laws that WE'VE GOT TO BE VERY CAREFUL HOW WE DO IT. WE CAN'T BE PUSHING, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING. YOU SENT AN E-MAIL ABOUT IT, WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE, AND YOU DO IT WITHIN A CERTAIN TIME FRAME. IT'S VIEWED AS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, PUSH ONE POSITION OVER ANOTHER, AND WE CAN GET IN TROUBLE WITH THAT. SO WE JUST GOT TO BE CAREFUL WITH THAT. BUT, I MEAN, THIS IS VERY BIG STUFF THAT, I MEAN, SOME OF US HAVE BEEN UP HERE FOR A LONG TIME, AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF US HAVE SEEN ANYTHING OF THIS MAGNITUDE COMING DOWN. from Tallahassee that could really impact the level of services we provide to our residents. So I guess I might be arguing against myself a little bit where if there ever is a time to really tell the residents, like, sound the alarm bell without being political about it, I guess this is also a time to do that. We got one email that was from a resident. I forget if the whole commission was on or just me and you. We all got it. Yeah, we all got it. you know, passionate about, you know, what we, the article in Cityscape. Good thing it was you that signed that one. No, I'm kidding. But the department heads trying to get community input. That's, you know, what was that, number two? Yes, sir. I'm just wondering how we do that. We've done surveys in the past, online surveys. Give them a priority list and let them rank the priority list. I mean, that's one way to do it. I mean... Because what happens is if you put it out there and say, well, what's near and dear to your heart? What do you like most about Safety Harbor? They're not typically going to give you this all-inclusive laundry list. But if you have, at least there's a questionnaire. And you ask them to prioritize. Now you're asking, because you can list in a broad sense, you can list some of the city services that are provided. and let people rank them, and then that would help us. I don't know, because if you leave blanks, you're going to get, instead of having hundreds of responses, you may get 50. I just, people are reluctant to fill in the blanks necessarily versus prioritizing and making it more interactive for residents. That's my thought. What would it look like if we were to put, you know, 10 things for people to prioritize? We've got, obviously, parks and recs is something that... IS A WANT BUT NOT A NEED, BUT I THINK I AMONG, I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY, REALLY VALUE WHAT WE DO THERE. WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY CENTER THAT HAS ALL KINDS OF ACTIVITIES AND PROGRAMMING. I MEAN, TO EVEN PUT WASTE. PARKS REC, LIBRARY, YOU COULD DO ALL THE FUNCTIONS OF ALL THE DEPARTMENTS AND KIND OF GIVE THEM A LAUNDRY LIST AND ASK THEM TO RANK THE LAUNDRY LIST AS FAR AS WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM. YEAH, SO IF I COULD JUST JUMP IN SO I CAPTURE THE STUFF. THE FEEDBACK ABOUT PRIORITIZATION, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT. AND THEN, MAY I AGREE, WE WANT TO HAVE TACT, YOU KNOW, AND MAKE SURE THAT THE EDUCATION IS, YOU KNOW, WELL RECEIVED. THERE'S DIFFERENT VENUES TO DO THAT. I THINK WITH THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND SURVEYS, I DON'T THINK IT MAY NOT BE ONE SURVEY. It may be a survey that goes to, you know, a selection of residents or that any resident is able to go do a survey. Or we engage just a cross-section of the community just to try to gauge what they feel is valuable and maybe providing them with a priority list, not just of departments but programs. THE SURVEY CAN ACTUALLY WORK THE SURVEY CAN ACTUALLY WORK THE SURVEY CAN ACTUALLY WORK BOTH WAYS. BOTH WAYS. BOTH WAYS. IT'S OUR WAY TO GET FEEDBACK IT'S OUR WAY TO GET FEEDBACK IT'S OUR WAY TO GET FEEDBACK FROM RESIDENTS, BUT IT'S ALSO FROM RESIDENTS, BUT IT'S ALSO FROM RESIDENTS, BUT IT'S ALSO A WAY FOR US TO ALSO A WAY FOR US TO ALSO A WAY FOR US TO ALSO KIND OF EDUCATE RESIDENTS. KIND OF EDUCATE RESIDENTS. KIND OF EDUCATE RESIDENTS. AND IF YOU SAY, LIKE, AND IF YOU SAY, LIKE, AND IF YOU SAY, LIKE, HEY, THE STATE HAS THESE HEY, THE STATE HAS THESE HEY, THE STATE HAS THESE PROPOSED BILLS GOING THROUGH, PROPOSED BILLS GOING THROUGH, PROPOSED BILL put pressure on people in Tallahassee. But I think number three was getting feedback from the department heads. Yeah, that's a good one. What were the other ones? Three and four were feedback from department heads. One was revenue ideas, and the other one was expenses. So just so I understand, though, So if any or one or any of these bills goes through and they, let's just say it results in a 20% reduction in the property taxes we collect, are we able to shift that burden to non-homesteaded properties or to commercial properties? So you are capped on how much you could raise the millage rate. So, for example, if there were a complete elimination of homestead property taxes and it was non-homestead property taxes, They would still pay your millage rate, but whether you maintain a 3.95 in future years or you do a supermajority to increase it to its max, you're still capped at how much you could increase it for your tax base. There's a percent cap, right, if I remember? I believe so, and that's a yes. We should probably look at stuff like, again, having staff look at potential revenue streams. If this goes through, it's going to cause us to look at our fee schedules in each department and potentially increase the fee schedules and usages of our parks, et cetera, in order to capture some of those monies to keep parks open, to keep certain services going. I mean, honestly, it's going to, you know, that's, to me, that goes into the income stream that each department is going to look at. in addition to potentially if they keep Avaloram taxes on non-homesteaded properties, such as commercial properties, et cetera, we probably want to have an idea going into it with the cap in place. Okay, so we're going to raise the millage on those particular properties. How much can we raise it, and how much more would we capture by raising it on those specific – I mean, there's no way to know now because – The bill hasn't been voted upon, and we haven't voted on it. And that's why they're trying to get clearer language about what bills move forward and what would be voted on. But the other idea, too, essentially is, yes, fees, but if you're left with a – if your tax base is reduced – so say your tax base is redefined to non-homestead properties, my recommendation to this city commission would be expand the non-tax – expand the non-homestead tax base. You know, what does that look like? And that's where you get into long-term plannings of what does the land development code look like and what is allowed and not allowed. How does that relate to the land development code? It's about uses of property, so more apartment buildings, commercial or industrial property. That's real long-term because we're pretty much built out. I mean, I know there's those two projects going in. Yeah, there's different things that we can do to improve that, specifically in downtown. where we have basically a one-story downtown with very dilapidated buildings. Despite the success of Main Street, we have a pretty dilapidated downtown. Some of us love it. This is how you look at it. I don't look at it that way. Some of us love it. Well, if you look at the vacancies, you look at the buildings that are crumbling on the inside because they're vacant because they're crumbling. You have some old school landlords that have kept it that way for a long time. If you compare our infrastructure in downtown to the infrastructure in Even in Tarpon Springs, Tarpon Springs is 10 times better infrastructure than we do. If you take a good look when you go to Tarpon Springs, their buildings, their facades, and how high the ceilings are. Realistically, how much is that? That's long-term, and how much extra revenue are you going to bring in, assuming we could have the same infrastructure as Tarpon Springs in five years? I'm not... Can I throw in also, we're talking about private property, right? What's that? We're talking about private property. We're talking about commercial property, not homestead. So how much can we do? We can make suggestions, and we could change the code. The situation has been the same situation that we've had since I began here. Basically, you have an out-of-standard infrastructure set up on Main Street. So what you have is... unsophisticated businesses that are going in there to fill those slots. And those businesses are not, those could be just small boutique, what do you call it, hobby stores. I mean, they're not sophisticated businesses, which will tend to go out of business a lot quicker. That's the issue. So with a better infrastructure the more investment, the better the tenant, the better the business model. So, I mean, it's basically one follows the other. You're not going to have a new business selling, I don't want to say any type of business because I don't want people to start holding on to me, but you're not going to have a small business entertain a A-grade infrastructure because they're not going to be able to sustain the rent. So basically, you're going to have somebody who's a lot more serious about the business. Somebody who's already got a sound business model. Somebody who's investing in it. But right now, what you have is you have 1,200 square foot 60-year-old sites with 8-foot ceilings. You can't IT'S VERY LIMITED WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN THOSE AREAS, RIGHT? AND OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A LOT OF VACANCIES HAPPENING IN DOWNTOWN NOW. BUT CAN I GO OVER MY LIST? CAN I ASK? I DID HAVE A QUESTION. ONE PROPOSAL THAT I MAY SAY IS BECAUSE IF I LOOK AT THIS HIGH LEVEL, MAYBE THERE ARE CITIES OUT THERE MAYBE THERE ARE CITIES OUT THERE MAYBE THERE ARE CITIES OUT THERE THAT HAVE SOME WASTE THAT HAVE SOME WASTE THAT HAVE SOME WASTE THAT SOME OF THIS LEGISLATION SOME OF THIS LEGISLATION SOME OF THIS LEGISLATION COULD BE EFFECTIVE COULD BE EFFECTIVE COULD BE EFFECTIVE AT DEALING WITH. AT DEALING WITH. AT DEALING WITH. I DON'T SEE THIS CITY, I DON'T SEE THIS CITY, I DON'T SEE THIS CITY, I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE ALREADY I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE ALREADY I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE ALREADY RUNNING A PRETTY LEAN OPERATION RUNNING A PRETTY LEAN OPERATION RUNNING A PRETTY LEAN OPERATION OVER HERE AND PROVIDING OVER A heart attack, she may just keel over in a second, but just thinking out of the box, because we can't tinker with, there's only so much you can do with the property taxes, but fees, i.e. streetlight fee, there she goes. But what's our option with the streetlight fee? I'd be curious to know what our options are for revenue replacement, whether it be the streetlight fee, other fees, impact fees. And it's looking at the item to expand upon all revenue streams. So the state, there are state laws about what we could gain for fees and identify revenue. So that would be in that bucket, in that initiative, whether it's fire assessment fees or increasing streetlight fees. But I agree with you. What are the opportunities to replace that loss to maintain as much as what our citizens enjoy? And excuse me, Carlos, because I have to rebut immediately. I'm with you. IF THIS PASSES IN WHATEVER VARIATION THE CITY MANAGER HAS LAID OUT, I WOULD, OR MY FUTURE COUNTERPART WILL HAVE TO HUSH ABOUT FEES, BECAUSE IT'S ALL GOING TO BE FEE-BASED. I WAS TALKING TO ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, A FORMER COMMISSIONER, WHO SAID, WE'VE BEEN LEGISLATING FOR BEDFORD FALLS. WE HAVEN'T WANTED TO GO POTTERSVILLE. We're going to go to Pottersville unless we do fees. It's a wonderful life, the beautiful community, caring about everybody. And then there's the commercial tyrant saying, hey, pay, pay, pay, live in my shabby housing. So we've been going for the top. But if this happens, if the voters tell us we don't want that, we want to pay no property tax or we want to pay reduced property tax, that will be a message that I will hear is what I'm trying to tell you. AND FEES? HOW WILL WE REPLACE BASIC SERVICES? THANK YOU. YEAH, SO LET ME TAKE A POKE AT THIS THING. INITIATIVE NUMBER ONE, EXPANDING PUBLIC EDUCATION. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. I THINK THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED, DEFINITELY, SO THAT WHEN THEY GO OUT TO VOTE ON THIS, THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ON. THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND what the ramifications are. My personal point of view on this thing is that this is coming to the forefront because there's inequities going on in Florida and maybe in the whole country. Everybody talks specifically in the federal forum about everybody paying their share. I don't fear what happens here. Personally, from a personal standpoint, I don't fear it. Because I pay my share. I'm paying my taxes. And if it goes to, whether it goes to property taxes or fees, I don't care. It doesn't matter. I'm still paying it anyway. It's going to, unless they increase my property taxes and increase my fees, and then that's going to be a problem. But I think that, you know. Here's a question for you. As a resident, and you're about to be, you know, not elected soon, how are you going to feel if the services get cut as just a resident if we can't replace the revenue? Well, if I don't have to pay any property taxes, I'll contract private people to do it. To do, like... Well, forget that. You work at the community center. I mean, if you can't go there anymore... I'd have to go to a gym. I mean, yeah, there's going to be a lot of inconveniences. And I don't want to have those inconveniences. I like it the way it is now. But I do think that this is a massive thing where I think people... a lot of people feel that everybody should pay their share of taxes. So regardless of where that stands, but I think educating the public is number one. Number two, as far as what services the community values, I think that's a double-edged sword. I think when you put it up there and you put down the 10 items that people like, you're going to see a lot of stuff which... 10 things that some people like, and then the other people are going to look at it and say, why do we have this? Why do we have that? I don't use any of these things. You know, we should get rid of everything. So it's a double-edged sword. I mean, you have to understand. I think if you list garbage pickup, you list water and sewer, they're going to prioritize that. In the top 10, they're going to put down the rec center. They're going to put down the goats, the pickleball courts. At least we know it's important to them. Whatever, if you're out there. They're not going to put down the street cleaning, maybe not even the garbage pickup. But I think it's a double-edged sword. Whether you put it in or not, I don't know which way that's going to work out. The next thing is I think we should look at assessment fees. We should prepare for it so that if this happens, that we're not caught, you know, With no plan of action? Are you talking the fire? Or what assessment fees? Whatever assessment fees it is. Okay. Yeah, whether it's higher sewer fees, higher police assessment. Is there any way to do, like, a community assessment fee for all costs outside of water, sewer, garbage pickup, that type of thing? Because they're water, sewer, garbage, or enterprise funds, so you can't just, like, jack those up and move it to others. But you may have to come up with a fee for... Parks and Rec, you may have to come up with a fee. Put it in the utility bill where you break it all out and this is what you're paying for. That goes to what Carlos is saying. There are going to be some people who are going to be affluent enough that they'll just go to a gym or they'll go and they'll say, why do I have to pay a community fee to pay for those people's things? those people's desires. So I can see it. I see Hunger Games. I'm sorry. You'd rather do it on a case-by-case basis or just phase out having a community center? I don't know what to think. I'm still deer in the headlights about this whole thing and still hopeful it's not going to happen, but understanding that we have to plan. You almost have to say, like, if you get too granular, you're going to say, ah, me personally, I use the community center, but I don't use pickleball court. But you got to kind of, I think it has to be broad enough where it's like, do you value your leisure services all kind of like in a group? I wouldn't break it out. I wouldn't break it out. I would keep it very general for certain things because some people may walk in the park and they don't use Pickleball, they don't use the community center, but they still use a portion of leisure services. And don't forget, some of those items too, right, what's going to be affected is your general fund, not your enterprise fund. So those essential services you're using, waste management, water, those are already fee-based. Now we may see some more fee. We're due to look at those fees for utility rates. So we're really talking about those general fund services, fire, police, library, recreation. That's really what you're talking about because your internal facing departments are supporting those departments. You're going to need human resources of finance based on the scale of what's being provided. So I think another thing to look at, too, when we ask the community, may even be prioritizing really some endpoint programs. Do you like Third Friday? Can you live without Third Friday? Do you like the parades, fireworks? What's more important, a fire engine showing up at your front door in five minutes, four minutes, or some of those elements? And I'm confident... There are surveys that have been done, whether in other communities, not too long ago, maybe not necessarily specifically for this, or just reaching out to some experts, too, about what is some really good survey language that there are high returns on that just gives us a little glimpse of what the priority is to help out this commission when it comes time to do that respective budget. Excuse me, I don't think they're going to get rid of all ad valorem taxes. BUT I WOULD DEFINITELY ANTICIPATE BETWEEN ONE TO TWO MILLION GOING AWAY, EITHER HOMESTEAD PROPERTY, ET CETERA, BUT THAT'S WHAT I... SEEMS TO ME WE NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT HOW DO WE MAKE UP ONE TO TWO MILLION. I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS THAT SOMETHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN, LIKE YOU SAID, ONE OR TWO MILLION DOLLARS, RIGHT? THERE'S GOING TO BE A SHORTFALL, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE A TWO- OR THREE-YEAR PERIOD WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE HARD GOING FOR THE CITIES, RIGHT? AND DURING THOSE TWO OR THREE YEARS, there's got to be some mechanisms in place in order to continue things for when things get better. First of all, I think once this happens, in three years there's going to be a new administration and they're going to say, you know what, let's flip that back. But there's also things that the reason this is happening is because they want to force the cities to do certain things, obviously. They're trying to muscle in a little bit. But I think for those that two- or three-year gap, I think there's a few things that need to be prepared for. I think there's possible asset sales, some lands that we don't need, possibility. Loan servicing, taking it out alone to bridge the gap. Grants, investing in a grant writer and going after grants from... state of Florida, county, I guess, and also the federal government. And also zoning, zoning, you're gonna have to take advantage, we're gonna have to maximize the revenues as much as the taste in the city is, maximize the revenues in the city, the ad valorem taxes that are left. You know, those properties that are paying ad valorem taxes, we need to maximize their value. And I think there needs to be some zoning, easing of some zoning restrictions. It's a tough one because to me this is such a bad idea as it relates to safety hardware. It's like, do you say, do you think even if this does pass and we take a $2 million hit in the budget, is this going to really last the next 10, 15 years? I mean, are residents across the state going to be like, hey, hold on, we didn't realize you're actually going to cut our services. We just thought we're not going to pay as much property taxes, and they're going to flip it back? Or is this something that you plan on sticking around for a while, and then you've got to do some long-term stuff, whether it mean changing some zoning or stuff like that? You start changing zoning, and then you get the backlash, and then you get zoning you didn't really want, but you had to have in place. It's tough because, you know, the switch is going to flip quick. When it does flip, you know, you have some interesting ideas, but they take time. They're going to take years, I think, to bear fruit as far as, you know, monetarily, as far as how long it takes to monetize them. Well, I mean, whenever they... you know, that's why you have to start planning for them now. So maybe in four or five years, because if it takes a while and you don't know how long this will take to flip back, I think it'll flip back, but it may be five, 10 years. I mean, you don't want to have 10 years of without, you know. Could I add in too, that we're very successful. The city is very successful and people seek to live here. And it goes back to my example of Bedford Falls as opposed to the pits. So I fear when I hear the zoning change language that we change to something that we don't want and that really the people coming in don't want. They like what we have. And so then are they going to want to come here and are these changes going to tumble us further? So some people in the literature that I read indicate that property values will shoot up right after this if there's a big change. Because as you said, some people will just be gleeful that they'll pay less. So a 5% to, what, 9% increase in property values. But then younger people won't be able to buy as easily. It will shrink the availability. So that's another thing if you think about it, right? If you increase the homestead, right, and you make it uncomfortable for non-homesteaders to own a property, right, that means technically they're going to be putting more homes on the market, right? Non-homesteaders. Non-homesteaders will be... Non-homesteaders. Right. And then homesteaders will be coming in. Hopefully, people, homesteaders will be coming in to buy it, right? They're going to get the... less property taxes, plus it's gonna be more inventory. I mean, one of the problems right now that exists is the fact that you have a lot of people in the older generation that own multiple houses and they're using multiple houses to rent and they can do it nowadays because you've got the Airbnbs, you have all this capabilities of renting Right? And, you know, you could buy a home that's way over your head. Right? But then you can go ahead and rent it out for three or four months, especially here in beautiful Florida. Right? You could just, you know, you have a football game, right? You have the opposing team's fans come in. You can rent your home for $5,000 a week, you know, if you want. You know, you do that, multiply that by, you know, 10 home games and there you go. And there's a lot of people that do that. And it's not just football, it's basically the weather, it's spring training, you got the beaches. So that's where we're at. I mean, we live in a great place, beautiful place, but it's in high demand. the thing to watch would be long-term is that ratio of homestead to non-homestead. Because if that becomes your tax base, and if that happens right there, what Vice Mayor Diaz said, that more people settle and rentals become homestead properties, your homestead tax base, your homesteads increase, and your non-homestead tax base decreases. So though we may not BE LOOKING AT ZONING OR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE UPDATES IMMEDIATELY. I DO THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD MONITOR IF THIS WERE TO OCCUR AND IF IT'S NOT TURNED OVER OR CHANGED, WE SHOULD REALLY LOOK AT THAT, MONITOR THAT RATIO OF NON-HOMESTEAD TO HOMESTEAD PROPERTIES OF WHAT YOUR TAX BASE IS. ONE THING I'D BE INTERESTED IN THE FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY WOULD BE, ARE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN cutting services that the city offers, or are you more interested in replacing the revenue that the city would be losing through property taxes through other means to keep our services? And I think that feedback will kind of give us as electeds good information on which direction to focus on. Because I think honestly what makes this community, what's really important about the community is these extra services that we do provide. I think that's one of the things. It's not just the geography, which is great, or the landscape, which is great, a lot of things that are great, but I think that's a huge part of what makes this community so desirable. But I think when you come up, I'm still for a priority list, but I think you can cone it down to just what's covered by the general fund. So you can leave all the other basic needs out. Garbage, sewer, stuff like that. Everything covered by an enterprise fund or otherwise, I would leave out. Yes, again. Somebody's going to be posting that list on social media. This is what they do with their money in Safety Harbor. Which is good. That would be nice to know if they put it last. A lot of thoughts here. We've got an existential crisis with the property taxes. That's how we've all been describing it. So what's tough for me right now when we're giving direction to the city on where to use our resources over the next year is to say, all hands on deck to fight what we don't know what we're fighting yet. We don't know what's going to come of it. So I think it's really good to be prepared because we can't start from scratch whenever the ball drops here. So I think most of these approaches are really good. And I think you mentioned it kind of in your introductory. It's not the only thing the city is going to be doing for the next year. We've still got projects that we've kicked off last year that we want to see. move forward and then the public education piece we do need to be really careful from a city standpoint what we put out there it needs to all just be fact-based and educational and there's things that can be a little bit of swaying language on a survey like do you value third Fridays and parades that's a that's a way to communicate that this is on the chopping block should this go through but I think a lot of the true sort of swaying of the public's and it's going to come up to us right like we're the ones that can be political about it and go tell people it's a bad idea. The city can't. But some of the things that you guys can provide, like through this research, is what is on the chopping block and what's not. And I think some reassurance that essential services like garbage and things like that are covered with enterprise funds. We will likely have to raise that so that they can go a little deeper and sustain the departments a little bit better. But also fees... you know, there's two categories of fees in my mind. There's raising existing fees and adding new fees. And I think that's how I would want to communicate it to the public because we charge for stuff at the recreation facilities all the time. We charge for daycare, we charge for camp, we charge for lots of things. And so there's a communication that says that's going to increase by 100%, 200%, something like that. It's not 20 to make up the ground. It's going to be substantial and so i think you could communicate something like that like if you know we have plans to increase existing fees in the leisure services department on an average of 20 like i think that would be the message that would go out to people and then we would say we're thinking we've got the ideas of adding fees that weren't currently in place for all of these services right and you could ask it in that way so that folks are saying I wouldn't be willing to pay anything for that. I enjoy the free service, but I could take it or leave it. And there's going to be just like people have options. We've got a lot of folks using the camp here. And that's what I've been talking to residents out there, the parents that I know use the after school or use summer camp. I tell them, like, we get rid of property taxes, you're going to pay double, probably double for that. And they said, well, if I did that, I would have less money than if I paid property taxes. You're exactly right. And that's the messages we can be carrying to everybody. So that's just kind of some of my thoughts. But the second part would be a lot of people won't do it anymore, and then you wouldn't have enough of a base to sustain it. Exactly. It's a spiral. It's tough because we don't know where we're going. We have to be careful about our public education until we know what we're educating them on. So it is a slow play. I like that we got the Cityscape magazine out there that said, here's where our property taxes go. I think we could do another one, another one that just with different looks and feels so that people with different learning capacities can see it in different ways. And we just keep doing that. And then when we know what's going to land, that's when we start trying to fight against it. And I think I'm still optimistic with as much As much fighting as we're doing on this and educating the public, whatever hits the ballot might not even pass. And so we could be here in a year or two, you know, taking a deep breath, saying, thank God that didn't go through. And so my question outside of this is, is there anything we're going to be disappointed that we didn't work on for the last year or two when nothing went wrong, you know, that we lost sight of? Make sure we're keeping those important things up there. Sure, of course. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And, you know, we want to be diligent. And, you know, obviously we have the items that come before this commission for approval for large expenses. But, you know, I think, you know, we are waiting for that facilities assessment to come back. I think some of the things of, you know, brand new initiatives and things like that, we may want to pause and plan. We want to continue maintaining the great programs and services we have, maintaining our facilities. But this commission may see some more questions come before them about items that we did budget a year ago that may be expensive, that we come to you as we look at it or go out to bid or when we have a high-value purchase, just be keeping back your mind. Maybe it's not yet. Maybe it needs to be rebudgeted to a later year. I think kicking the can down the road on a few of those things is going to be appropriate right now until we see what happens, if it's somewhat of an optional. But I do think that that facilities assessment is going to be crucial either way this thing swings. So that's going to be one I think to keep our eye on. Of course. Let's say something. As I'm listening, I feel so. This is when I first got on the commission, 2009, just after the recession. And I remember we were fiscally constrained. We had to be careful. We had to be cautious. So I appreciate your comments. I appreciate your caution. I have the other side that says, let's not doze ourselves. You and I have had this conversation. Let's not beat ourselves about the head when it might not happen. And then I also want to compliment you about the educative piece. I also want to say that people, residents such as Susan Zinkel, have come forward and have been complimentary of the education piece. So I think anything we can do to educate is fine. And what I'm reading from what you gave us, as long as we don't say vote for this or don't vote for this, we're fine. The big benchmark is when an item becomes a ballot question, you cannot spend public funds to educate. So that's the way. I read the last act came out from Florida League of Cities. So once it becomes a ballot question. And that'll be tricky for us too after it becomes a ballot question because you said we're not the city, but we are the city because we get money from the city. So if we go to an official function, we probably have to watch it. If we're talking privately, it will be different, right? Well, I think your lawyer should answer that question for you. I know what staff can and can't do, but as a... as opposed to the electeds, I think that would be something for BMO to look at about what their abilities are. But no, a big part of this meeting was we're not turning stuff off. We're not stopping. We're proceeding with caution. It's sort of my job for you to be the fun police and just take a look at this stuff. But the big item is that we are going to start planning next year's budget. Next year's budget will be passed more than likely two months before a possible vote. AND WHAT WE DO IN FISCAL YEAR 27, AND WHAT WE DO IN FISCAL YEAR 27, AND WHAT WE DO IN FISCAL YEAR 27, WE'LL SET YOU UP FOR FISCAL YEAR 27, WE'LL SET YOU UP FOR FISCAL YEAR 27, WE'LL SET YOU UP FOR FISCAL YEAR 28. WE'LL SET YOU UP FOR FISCAL YEAR 28. WE'LL SET YOU UP FOR FISCAL YEAR 28. SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANT TO YEAR 28. SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANT TO YEAR 28. SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANT TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT AS WE GO SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANT TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT AS WE GO SO THAT'S WHAT I JUST WANT TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT AS WE GO INTO THAT NEXT, AS WE GO INTO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT just an update on the list of all the projects and everything we have ongoing and give a report out on those. I went back and forth with the agenda for this workshop, and I knew if I did that, we just wouldn't have the time would have been eaten up in that conversation. Are we also mindful that if this does hype in the past, that the county is going to be impacted and the money we get from the county may kind of... Correct. Maybe a double... Correct. We received one point, for instance, EMS ad valorem. EMS, well, now they're considering language that what it is in a certain year where it can't be cut back. But we received $1.3 million from the county for EMS reimbursement. Well, there's a penny for Pinellas. There's CRA money. I don't know how all that may be impacted. But if that's also impacted, too, then we've got to just be mindful of that. I'll share a little bit, too. So I was just in Tallahassee. I was going to say this for my commission report. Specific to property taxes, I was just in Tallahassee with the Suncoast League last week. And the general sense when we brought up property taxes to legislators were, we get it, we're not really ready to talk about it. Now, when Josh and staff were able to get me a couple of counterpoints, and that seemed to perk some ears of them, like if we, this bill, we may not be able to do 65, but if it was 75 and older, you know, We might be able to handle it. So people, they were starting, you could just see in their face, they were starting to get real receptive to some counter offers. So I think when it starts to get into messaging, and the Senate was all pretty hush-hush, and it sounded like a lot of the Senate was going to try to sit on this for a while and keep it at bay. And even the House folks were kind of iffy. Now, I've talked with the Suncoast League. I don't even know how many times right now. And then when I was at the legislative action or the legislative conference for the Florida League, it's almost across the board a one-for-one ratio for public safety, for fire and police. Like what we collect for ad valorem is exactly that. And so I was telling that to the legislators, and they all were kind of like, yeah, we've heard it. But, like, that's – when I'm talking to the Suncoast League, that's what we're telling them, like, just keep saying that. Just keep letting – because they keep wanting to – the governor and everybody else wants to add language to protect public safety. And it's like, well, you might as well just keep it there if you want to keep funding for public safety because it's a one-for-one. And that's real consistent across a lot of cities. And I'll add there is another bill going through that isn't a property tax reform bill. It is House Bill 103, which is to repeal – all of our local business tax receipts. So that's been in existence for over 50 years, and our annual revenue is $160,000 on that. So that is, once again, for us, that's a hit. So, but thank you. We all good? All right, we'll adjourn the workshop and then reconvene at 7 for the regular meeting.